Arisia v Lunacon

[juldea]

Arisia's Writer Guest of Honor this year was Laura Anne Gilman, who writes young adult fiction, Buffyverse, Quantum Leap-verse, etc.

Lunacon's Writer Guest of Honor this year was Jacqueline Carey, who writes streamy fantasy/romance novels featuring heavy BDSM/kink plot elements.

Yet Arisia becomes the sex con, and Lunacon the literary con, in the minds of many. Interesting.

Comments

[shadowravyn.livejournal.com]

(Also, I don't know what you mean by "non-guest content", but I saw a hotel suite with a sign on the door promoting their invite-only kinky sex party. Totally out in the open, totally 'part' of the con.)

Whoa. Whoawhoawhoa. Those guys are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, "part" of the con. We don't like them, we don't have anything to do with them, we actively work against them (ie take down their fliers, bitch them out when they put out fliers, call security on them at various points of the con when they get too excited about getting folks into said party, etc). They are members of the con who come to the con and throw sex parties, but they are NOT part of Lunacon. At all. In fact, they needed to register the hotel under a different name than last year because we wouldn't let the chick from 2007 reserve a room for '08.

Also, neither LGBT M&G and Sexuality in SF are After Dark Programming. Sexuality was about how SFF pushes the envelope of what is acceptable (Trek first on-screen interracial kiss, openly accepting GLBTQ relationships, etc etc) and how that works as a marker for society.

" As in fandom itself, sexuality in science fiction and fantasy tends to be very diverse and open. Instead of sticking to the two gender binary, SFF explores many kinds of gender and sexuality, including Ursula K. Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness and Storm Constantine's Wraeththu Chronicles. A discussion about how SFF is leading the way to a more open and accepting society, one novel at a time."

Lunacon had 600+ hours of programming this year. Assuming you did want to count LGBTQ as an After dark, that's one sexual panel for about 60 other panels. What's Arisia's ratio? I'm betting the answer to that is why Arisia's considered more of a sex con than Lunacon is.

And, though JC is famous for the Kushiel's Legacy series, she was on only two of the panels you listed: Sexuality in SFF and Sex Done Right, which focused on writing sex in such a way as to not sound like an utter ass. And she was on twelve program items total. Sex was NOT her main focus at all. Nor is it Lunacon's

[juldea.livejournal.com]

That's why the 'part' was in quotes: it wasn't official, but it was still 'part' of the con in the same way as I think contradictacat means when she says "non-guest content". It is stuff not put on by the con but put on by non-guests that guests have the option of interacting with. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Lunacon endorsed or even liked it.

I wasn't listing After Dark programming, I was listing panels that caught my eye when I flipped through the pocket program looking for "sex-related" things.

I am a bit taken aback by your reaction; do you think I'm trying to paint Lunacon in some sleazy, sexy way? I'm not. I'm honestly stating that Lunacon embraces sexuality to a similar extent (in my mind) as Arisia when it comes to panels and programming, and that Lunacon's GOH this year writes material that is more sex-focused than Arisia's, and yet the perception of Arisia as the sex con exists, and this is interesting to me. You react like I'm insulting Lunacon or calling it sex-focused, when I don't see that I am at all!

[shadowravyn.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. From the way I read your original post it sounded like, "I don't know why Arisia gets considered to be such a sleazy con, when Lunacon had Jacqueline Carey as a GoH and Arisia had Laura Ann Gilman!" So, yes, that's pretty much what I thought you were saying. Then, you just picked out panels that, as you say, have the word "sex" in them, as a way to make a point--but it wasn't the point I thought you were making. And, in the light of that point, I'm seeing you pick several panels that have very little to do with sex at all and then using them to "prove" that Lunacon is a very sex-focused con.

That frustrated me some, as I know you know that's a wildly specious argument, and so I was a little hurt why you'd "need" to make it that way just to make Lunacon look sleazy.

Which prolly shoulda been my first (or eighth) clue that you weren't, but then I got distracted by the sex-party people as being part of Lunacon--*shudders* and that pushed all my wrong buttons. Especially since they nearly got us evicted from the hotel (and sued!) AGAIN last year. And they aren't even supposed to be out in the open. They're not allowed to advertise, because it could get us into a lot of trouble if someone wants to read it as a form of prostitution--since if people did assume this is a con-sanctioned event, and people need to pay to get into the con, then people are paying for sex. It gets ugly.

I'm sorry I snapped. But these folks bother me, and any affiliation makes me kick first and ask questions later. I'm also still pretty much in knee-jerk rabid-defense mode, as Lunacon is "mine" now, and any criticism of it is read (by me) as a criticism of me. Which is one thing when it's deserved, and something else when it's not.

Probably the biggest reason Arisia's portrayed as a sex con and Lunacon isn't? Look at the demographics. Arisia's mostly young college kids. Lunacon's crowd is much older, with another big chunk of our attendees under 16.

Sorry, hon.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Okay. I find all that to be an amazing amount of assumption and putting words in my mouth, which I'm mostly amazed by because I would've thought you'd've known better than to assume I'd say stuff like that. But I do understand the "kick first, ask questions later" reaction to the scary sex party people. I would react as badly to them as you do, if I had spent so many years trying to get them out!

On the real topics: I actually kinda perceive Arisia and Lunacon as having a similar % of "young college kids" and teenagers, but with Arisia having more 25-35 year olds and Lunacon having more 35-55 year olds. And how much there is the chicken and the egg, I wonder?

[shogunhb.livejournal.com]

Not to mention, JC is an awesome writer. Her world and novels are easily as rich in depth as, say, RR Martin's. And I much preferred Kushiel to Ice&Fire. Yes, the main character in that series is a whore, which pretty much sells it for my wife, but that's not all the series has to offer. I think it's an injustice to consider her a "sex author". I haven't read her other series, "The Sundering", yet.

I've never read Laura Anne Gilman, so I can't comment to that.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I think it's an injustice to consider her a "sex author".
Who considered her as such? Who denied the depth of her worlds, of the interesting approaches to history and religion and government that she uses? Because it wasn't me.