Arisia v Lunacon

[juldea]

Arisia's Writer Guest of Honor this year was Laura Anne Gilman, who writes young adult fiction, Buffyverse, Quantum Leap-verse, etc.

Lunacon's Writer Guest of Honor this year was Jacqueline Carey, who writes streamy fantasy/romance novels featuring heavy BDSM/kink plot elements.

Yet Arisia becomes the sex con, and Lunacon the literary con, in the minds of many. Interesting.

Comments

[sjo.livejournal.com]

It's my impression that Arisia is a better place to GET sex anyway. I could, of course, be mistaken about this.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

From my experiences in not trying, I agree with this impression.

[sjo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the thing. No effort required, whether one intends to find sex or not.

[dlobok.livejournal.com]

I think Arisia's considered a sex con because they have a long history of shoving Poly down the throats of so many.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Huh, maybe that's the magic word - Lunacon had plenty of sex-related panels and content, but none that were specifically poly-related.

Gasp, might this imply that people associate polyamory with excessive sex?

[dlobok.livejournal.com]

For some people, it does. For some, it implies people who need to turn what they do behind closed doors into a public, loud, "LOOK AT ME" display.

[sjo.livejournal.com]

Oh, you mean you've met the people who introduce themselves and in the same breath tell you, "I'm poly!" I remember a female friend telling me, "So [name omitted to save the innocent] introduced herself and told me she was poly. Was she hitting on me?"

[ddrpolaris.livejournal.com]

The poly panel got cut due to lack of panelists.

[contradictacat.livejournal.com]

As far as I know from hearsay, Arisia's also got a LOT more sex-oriented panels and non-guest content. All things considered, a GOH doesn't really set the tone all that much for a con. The panels/workshops/attendee content tends to set the general tone.

but yeah. It is odd.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Lunacon had the following panels:
Sexuality in Science Fiction and Fantasy
Sex Done Right
High Tech Sex
Classic to Erotic
Bondage in Brundage
Sex Machines
Geeks Love Kinky Sex
Sex Magick
Fetish Etiquette
The Hanky Code
LBGT Meet & Greet

Arisia doesn't have a LOT more than that. (Also, I don't know what you mean by "non-guest content", but I saw a hotel suite with a sign on the door promoting their invite-only kinky sex party. Totally out in the open, totally 'part' of the con.)

I was not indicating that the GOH set the tone for a con. I was using the GOHs as a singular example of a juxtaposition I found amusing. The panels/workshops/attendee content is, from my experience, mostly similar outside of that.

[contradictacat.livejournal.com]

Ah. All right then. Ignore everything I said. I know nearly nothing about Lunacon other than it exists and Foam Brain runs LARPS there, so...now I know!

And I also know that I really need to go to more cons. I've obviously been going to all the wrong cons since I started going to them.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Lunacon is really fun. I've been twice now, and totally enjoy it. And it's where I really "met" Foam Brain, so that gets it bonus points. :)

[dlobok.livejournal.com]

They should just rename is FuckCon.

[shadowravyn.livejournal.com]

(Also, I don't know what you mean by "non-guest content", but I saw a hotel suite with a sign on the door promoting their invite-only kinky sex party. Totally out in the open, totally 'part' of the con.)

Whoa. Whoawhoawhoa. Those guys are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, "part" of the con. We don't like them, we don't have anything to do with them, we actively work against them (ie take down their fliers, bitch them out when they put out fliers, call security on them at various points of the con when they get too excited about getting folks into said party, etc). They are members of the con who come to the con and throw sex parties, but they are NOT part of Lunacon. At all. In fact, they needed to register the hotel under a different name than last year because we wouldn't let the chick from 2007 reserve a room for '08.

Also, neither LGBT M&G and Sexuality in SF are After Dark Programming. Sexuality was about how SFF pushes the envelope of what is acceptable (Trek first on-screen interracial kiss, openly accepting GLBTQ relationships, etc etc) and how that works as a marker for society.

" As in fandom itself, sexuality in science fiction and fantasy tends to be very diverse and open. Instead of sticking to the two gender binary, SFF explores many kinds of gender and sexuality, including Ursula K. Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness and Storm Constantine's Wraeththu Chronicles. A discussion about how SFF is leading the way to a more open and accepting society, one novel at a time."

Lunacon had 600+ hours of programming this year. Assuming you did want to count LGBTQ as an After dark, that's one sexual panel for about 60 other panels. What's Arisia's ratio? I'm betting the answer to that is why Arisia's considered more of a sex con than Lunacon is.

And, though JC is famous for the Kushiel's Legacy series, she was on only two of the panels you listed: Sexuality in SFF and Sex Done Right, which focused on writing sex in such a way as to not sound like an utter ass. And she was on twelve program items total. Sex was NOT her main focus at all. Nor is it Lunacon's

[juldea.livejournal.com]

That's why the 'part' was in quotes: it wasn't official, but it was still 'part' of the con in the same way as I think contradictacat means when she says "non-guest content". It is stuff not put on by the con but put on by non-guests that guests have the option of interacting with. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Lunacon endorsed or even liked it.

I wasn't listing After Dark programming, I was listing panels that caught my eye when I flipped through the pocket program looking for "sex-related" things.

I am a bit taken aback by your reaction; do you think I'm trying to paint Lunacon in some sleazy, sexy way? I'm not. I'm honestly stating that Lunacon embraces sexuality to a similar extent (in my mind) as Arisia when it comes to panels and programming, and that Lunacon's GOH this year writes material that is more sex-focused than Arisia's, and yet the perception of Arisia as the sex con exists, and this is interesting to me. You react like I'm insulting Lunacon or calling it sex-focused, when I don't see that I am at all!

[shadowravyn.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. From the way I read your original post it sounded like, "I don't know why Arisia gets considered to be such a sleazy con, when Lunacon had Jacqueline Carey as a GoH and Arisia had Laura Ann Gilman!" So, yes, that's pretty much what I thought you were saying. Then, you just picked out panels that, as you say, have the word "sex" in them, as a way to make a point--but it wasn't the point I thought you were making. And, in the light of that point, I'm seeing you pick several panels that have very little to do with sex at all and then using them to "prove" that Lunacon is a very sex-focused con.

That frustrated me some, as I know you know that's a wildly specious argument, and so I was a little hurt why you'd "need" to make it that way just to make Lunacon look sleazy.

Which prolly shoulda been my first (or eighth) clue that you weren't, but then I got distracted by the sex-party people as being part of Lunacon--*shudders* and that pushed all my wrong buttons. Especially since they nearly got us evicted from the hotel (and sued!) AGAIN last year. And they aren't even supposed to be out in the open. They're not allowed to advertise, because it could get us into a lot of trouble if someone wants to read it as a form of prostitution--since if people did assume this is a con-sanctioned event, and people need to pay to get into the con, then people are paying for sex. It gets ugly.

I'm sorry I snapped. But these folks bother me, and any affiliation makes me kick first and ask questions later. I'm also still pretty much in knee-jerk rabid-defense mode, as Lunacon is "mine" now, and any criticism of it is read (by me) as a criticism of me. Which is one thing when it's deserved, and something else when it's not.

Probably the biggest reason Arisia's portrayed as a sex con and Lunacon isn't? Look at the demographics. Arisia's mostly young college kids. Lunacon's crowd is much older, with another big chunk of our attendees under 16.

Sorry, hon.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Okay. I find all that to be an amazing amount of assumption and putting words in my mouth, which I'm mostly amazed by because I would've thought you'd've known better than to assume I'd say stuff like that. But I do understand the "kick first, ask questions later" reaction to the scary sex party people. I would react as badly to them as you do, if I had spent so many years trying to get them out!

On the real topics: I actually kinda perceive Arisia and Lunacon as having a similar % of "young college kids" and teenagers, but with Arisia having more 25-35 year olds and Lunacon having more 35-55 year olds. And how much there is the chicken and the egg, I wonder?

[shogunhb.livejournal.com]

Not to mention, JC is an awesome writer. Her world and novels are easily as rich in depth as, say, RR Martin's. And I much preferred Kushiel to Ice&Fire. Yes, the main character in that series is a whore, which pretty much sells it for my wife, but that's not all the series has to offer. I think it's an injustice to consider her a "sex author". I haven't read her other series, "The Sundering", yet.

I've never read Laura Anne Gilman, so I can't comment to that.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I think it's an injustice to consider her a "sex author".
Who considered her as such? Who denied the depth of her worlds, of the interesting approaches to history and religion and government that she uses? Because it wasn't me.

[shogunhb.livejournal.com]

A few of these panels were specifically "sex in lit" due to having Jacqueline Carey as GoH and also because there are a number of erotic fiction writers included in the con. Bondage in Brundage is a staple, mostly due to Phil Brucato who wasn't able to make it this year. Hanky Code was a throw-away Gazebo to keep a certain creepy individual busy so he wouldn't bother concurrent panels (there have been complaints in the past).

Meet and Greets are friendly to the younger crowd, but the biggest Lunacon meet & greet is "Meet the Pros".

Basically, what I'm saying is that this is easily double the amount of sex-related programming from previous years.

There is one sex party each year (probably the one that you saw advertised) that is not a part of the con and, in fact, has been a thorn in Lunacon's side for years. They follow us. Often, they advertise on orgy communities and lists and we get a number of random strangers in off the street trying to "register" for the orgy in programming ops. I honestly wish we could get a restraining order or something. But they get a room in the hotel and are paying guests, so it's difficult to sort out. The hotel yells at them every year not to put out their flyers.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Basically, what I'm saying is that this is easily double the amount of sex-related programming from previous years.

This is one thing I did not know (not having last year either indelibly etched into my mind, nor having an old program handy) and does help balance those things out in my head. I remember being in programming ops last year and dealing with someone trying to sign up for the orgy. *shudder* Also the anger that ensued. Yay, fun.

[crazybone.livejournal.com]

Also, during a large part of it's history Arisia occurred in the same place and at the same time as one of the more famous kink parties. Arisia didn't sponsor them, advertise them or provide security for them but there was a large crossover between the membership of both groups. Now, that is no longer the case vis a vis the same time/place but over the years many of these people have enjoyed attending Arisia and continue to do so. Some even volunteer to be on staff.
So I would argue some of the perception is due to being "that" con where "that" party goes on so that the one became synonymous with the other in the heads of the attendees.
That's my $.02 conspiracy theory anyway.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Hey, I didn't know that. I guess it ended before I started going to Arisia? ('05) That does provide a good reason for Arisia to be "that" con.