(no subject)
21 January 2003 02:44![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
juldeaI have two stories to tell.
In late 1998, Nick Burnett and I broke up for the final time. We had been dating off and on (mostly on) for two years, since I had moved to Edmond in fall 1996. The breakup was sparked by me. We were talking online while he was at work, and I made an offhand comment about his job (in general, not applying directly to him). Neither of us remembers the content of what I said, except that to me it was a simple comment and to him it was a low, dirty, mean jab. He took it personally. For a few weeks, no amount of, “But I didn’t mean it that way!” could convince him to stop being mad at me (plus the fact that originally, when he expressed his hurt anger at my statement, I didn’t handle my end well). Eventually we both calmed down, but the end had come.
Around six months later I went through another breakup, this one entirely my doing. I had been dating Gary Martin for about four months, and we were both head over heels for each other. The problem was, however, that he also was in love with Everquest. He was the type to be sucked into it and forget anything else existed – including me. Of course, if I went to his house and reminded him of my existence, everything would be fine and I would be lavished with attention. BUT... he wasn’t giving me what I considered necessary to get from a boyfriend. Consideration, time, effort. I had to fight for a relationship with him. That was the problem, plain and simple. Even though we loved each other, it wasn’t enough. There were better relationships out in the world, waiting for me, and I had the right to seek them. I would have to cut free in order to do that, though, and so I did. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, because he didn’t understand and it tore him up. I wish we were still friends, but I don’t even know how to find him anymore.
So, how many of you think that these stories are a prelude to me announcing a breakup with Jason? You’re wrong. Jason and I are doing great at the moment.
The point is more that I’m breaking up with most of the people who live in Norman (and a few that don’t).
Some of you have hurt me, although maybe you didn’t mean to. Some of you just simply can’t give me what I think is necessary in a friendship. Some of you have friendships I have to struggle to gain. Some of you... all of these reasons.
I’m washing my hands of it. I have too much to worry about and deal with to waste energy trying to rebuild bridges, or fight for friendships that I shouldn’t have to fight for. If you send me emails, they will be deleted. If you try to call me, I will hang up. If you come to my apartment, I will not answer the door.
If this hurts your feelings, I am probably sorry.
In late 1998, Nick Burnett and I broke up for the final time. We had been dating off and on (mostly on) for two years, since I had moved to Edmond in fall 1996. The breakup was sparked by me. We were talking online while he was at work, and I made an offhand comment about his job (in general, not applying directly to him). Neither of us remembers the content of what I said, except that to me it was a simple comment and to him it was a low, dirty, mean jab. He took it personally. For a few weeks, no amount of, “But I didn’t mean it that way!” could convince him to stop being mad at me (plus the fact that originally, when he expressed his hurt anger at my statement, I didn’t handle my end well). Eventually we both calmed down, but the end had come.
Around six months later I went through another breakup, this one entirely my doing. I had been dating Gary Martin for about four months, and we were both head over heels for each other. The problem was, however, that he also was in love with Everquest. He was the type to be sucked into it and forget anything else existed – including me. Of course, if I went to his house and reminded him of my existence, everything would be fine and I would be lavished with attention. BUT... he wasn’t giving me what I considered necessary to get from a boyfriend. Consideration, time, effort. I had to fight for a relationship with him. That was the problem, plain and simple. Even though we loved each other, it wasn’t enough. There were better relationships out in the world, waiting for me, and I had the right to seek them. I would have to cut free in order to do that, though, and so I did. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, because he didn’t understand and it tore him up. I wish we were still friends, but I don’t even know how to find him anymore.
So, how many of you think that these stories are a prelude to me announcing a breakup with Jason? You’re wrong. Jason and I are doing great at the moment.
The point is more that I’m breaking up with most of the people who live in Norman (and a few that don’t).
Some of you have hurt me, although maybe you didn’t mean to. Some of you just simply can’t give me what I think is necessary in a friendship. Some of you have friendships I have to struggle to gain. Some of you... all of these reasons.
I’m washing my hands of it. I have too much to worry about and deal with to waste energy trying to rebuild bridges, or fight for friendships that I shouldn’t have to fight for. If you send me emails, they will be deleted. If you try to call me, I will hang up. If you come to my apartment, I will not answer the door.
If this hurts your feelings, I am probably sorry.
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no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 01:50 (UTC)Just make sure you stay in touch with me, at least :)
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on 21 Jan 2003 02:01 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 02:05 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 02:31 (UTC)Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 02:49 (UTC)Since I realize similar thoughts might be on the minds of other people, I will take the time to say this: there are several friends of mine who have unintentionally hurt my feelings, and are not included among those I am "breaking up" with. Hurting me does not hold the automatic penalty of being dumped. However, as in the story about Nick - the reason I told the story in the first place - the way things are handled after such an incident occurs says a lot about the state of the relationship.
Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 02:59 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 03:28 (UTC)i do feel hurt, but i suppose that's my problem and not yours.
in closing, have a good life, and should you change your mind about wanting me in it, you know how to find me.
no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 04:15 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 05:37 (UTC)Anyway, all of that aside, 'breaking up' with a social group does happen...and the fault usually falls on both sides. Yes, as Captain Anonymous mentions, sometimes we don't call/initiate, but many times it is because it has begun to seem like we are the only ones putting forth the effort/willing to be forgiving. I would still encourage you to listen to Dervish and keep your options open, but I certainly wouldn't fault you from distancing yourself from a relationship with anyone who makes you feel like you aren't worth their effort. I had to put three states between myself and my own detrimental crowd. As anyone who knows me knows, I am all about space from poisonous relationships, no matter how much you care about or love the person/people.
no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 07:15 (UTC)Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 09:23 (UTC)Perhaps it's not mentioned in my journal in the past, but several times now (two that I can think of offhand) the pot has come close to boiling over on the subject of me having to do all the work to get myself invited/thought about. But I always clung to them, because I didn't have any other friends, and being completely friends-less was scary.
Now, however, I have other friends who live in Norman, and I'm also planning on moving soon. In the midst of stressing about graduating and moving, and how my life would change, the pot boiled over.
I will completely own up to my fault in the matter, though. It's my hangups and eccentricities and expectations that these people aren't compatible with. I don't think they're bad people; I don't even think they're bad friends. Just bad for me, at the moment.
Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 09:31 (UTC)I might sound cool and unfeeling through Livejournal, but I really do hurt. I'm a lot sad and a little angry. This isn't easy for me by any means. Contact with these people will/would leave me upset, and as I said, right now I have too much to handle to spend time being upset.
It's kind of like Ty - for a while I couldn't stand to be in the same room as he was in. After a long period of time when we never saw each other, though, those feelings faded. While we're not friends, I don't harbor any ill will towards him and I think I surprise him with how pleasant I am. Time healed it.
no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 09:33 (UTC)Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 09:40 (UTC)You have no right to be righteous on my livejournal.
The only excuses I can think of for the way you've treated me in the recent past are that either you're very dumb, or you've deliberately wanted to hurt my feelings. And I know you're not very dumb.
Pardon me while I yank away your moral high ground and toss it somewhere else.
Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 09:52 (UTC)That's not how it is, though. You and I live(d) in the same social circle. And somehow, over a long series of events, the feeling grew in me that your existence was directly harmful to mine. I know it's irrational, and I've tried to fight it (for much longer than just the past month), but it always comes back. And it hurts, deeply. The only way I could stay friends with you would be if you gave up all of the others, and I'm not conceited enough to ask that of you.
I don't know how I'm going to act. I really don't think I'll be smiling. I probably have to be stony-faced for a while, I don't know how long.
I'm sorry that because of the power of some stupidly irrational part of me, I have to hurt you to keep myself from hurting.
no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 10:02 (UTC)Re:
on 21 Jan 2003 11:34 (UTC)How have I treated you in the recent past that makes me seem that I must be either dumb or trying to hurt you? I called you to talk and maybe organize a time to get together, and you snubbed me. You were at work, yes, but I definitely got the feeling that you wanted to avoid the subject, and possibly me. Maybe I was overinterpreting.
A few days later I went to the computer lab to see if you were there, and you were, so I scratched your head, which was something you at least used to love above all else. Snubbed again. "Don't mess up my hair." You seemed busy, so I went to check on my bike, and when I turned around, you were gone. I've gone up to the computer lab several times since, but I'm not organized enough to actually coordinate my activities with the schedule, so I've always missed you.
So, if you are mad at me for not contacting you, then I invite you to compare the number of times I have called you in the past six months with the number of times you have called me. I'm not mad at you for not calling me, because I understand that there could be plenty of reasons for that, not the least of which is that you didn't know whether I'd be near my phone, whether I'd be roaming, and what my cheap hours were. But I am hurt that you want to break off our friendship and seem to insist that it's my fault.
It's also possible that you are mad at me because I am staying with Goldbug, Penny, and Chris, some or all of whom you have disagreements with, and think that this means I am siding with them against you. What can I say? Chris has been my best friend and roommate for years. Furthermore, that apartment is within walking distance of campus, which is very convenient for me since walking is my primary mode of transportation.
Then again, maybe you are mad at me for leaving you, as a recent Gæa Spore member, out of the current recording process. What can I say? I called, you were busy, and you never called me back.
I like to think that it's not my way to try to talk people out of things. If you think that the things we expect from friendship are incompatible, then it is your right to break things off regardless of how I feel about it. It hurts me if you have a problem with the person I am, but if you can't be happy with me as your friend, then it's for the best if we're not friends, and I can't do anything about that. However, if you feel that I have been treating you unfairly in comparison to the way I treat other people, then it seems that you have a misconception about my relationships with others.
If you'd like to talk about it sometime, without implicitly conceding anything to me, then I would like that. If not, then I'll respect your wishes and leave you alone.
no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 12:17 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 13:21 (UTC)no subject
on 21 Jan 2003 22:17 (UTC)Re:
on 22 Jan 2003 00:40 (UTC)no subject
on 22 Jan 2003 01:47 (UTC)You eventually returned to Norman. Due to a mixture of busy schedules, it was a few days before I ran into you. I eventually did, and that was good. We saw a movie, although I also remember that I had to do quite a bit of coaxing to get those plans rolling.
You left again, and that was the last I heard of you. I didn't know how long you were staying in Louisiana, a few days or a week, assumed I would hear from you when you were back. I didn't.
The next thing I know, I'm finding out through the grapevine that you have started up Gaea Spore, begun recording, and even included a new member. Check your timelines, this was weeks before your supposed attempt to tell me about it - and I'll get to that in a bit. Hearing this, I think, "Perhaps this is just gossip, perhaps I'll get a phone call tonight asking when I'm free to join up again."
I don't get a call, and I find out it's not gossip. We meet on the road, and it's not even mentioned. A week or two passes, and you call me while I'm working, after I'm already upset, and yet you STILL don't have the decency to say what's up. You want to know if I'm free that night, and I'm not, and so you tell me when you're free. Nothing about the band recordings that had already occurred, or the new members that had already joined. Perhaps you thought I didn't know, or didn't care - but that's where the dumb comes in. I think I have made it very clear what being a part of Gaea Spore meant to me. The only explanation I can fathom is that I was deliberately excluded, and that hurts. Badly. Enough for me to get angry as well as hurt, and to need to completely remove myself from the situation and the people in it.
There was too little, too late.
For the record, your comment was the first I knew of your living with goldbug & crew. It doesn't mean much of anything to me.
bum diddly um
on 22 Jan 2003 02:43 (UTC)hello julea. i just wanted to say that i still like you. it's true, we never really hang out. i only see you when cynthia and i get a craving for pizza, but i'm not upset about being dumped. well, that's not entirely true, but i understand why you have to.
i'm actually sort of confused though.. about gaea spore i mean. i wasnt under the impression that we were back together together. i at least just wanted to record some songs and do so quickly. i didnt call anyone. not even thom. i think that thom had just happened to call when brendan and i were talking about it. i guess that the lame point is that i dint include anybody in my list of people to "invite" to record. except for chase, who i had enjoyed recording *** with so much that i wanted to work with again. even penny had to bring his desire to record to my attention.. so i guess lame point number two is that i am dense, and this makes me inconsiderate, but not intentionally so. im sorry... but sorry won't put the triscuit crackers into your stomach (bad movie reference) so i understand your hurt.
Re:
on 22 Jan 2003 07:49 (UTC)I'm sorry that I took so long to try to contact you, and that was not entirely just not knowing that you hadn't heard. I could have called you right away rather than trusting to LiveJournal. But I also had all sorts of trepidation about the recording process. Chris, Thom, and I are the only people that don't seem to find it super frustrating. No one else has recorded anything, except Dave, when he was in town for the holidays. Penny came along once, and got frustrated and went home. I'm really open to the idea of other people recording things, be they gæa spores or not, but in practice it's much more difficult to make it a rewarding experience for them. You are more useful than Penny, because you play some instruments that we don't and can sing girl vocals. And you like running the mixer; Penny feels like that's a busy-work job. But I think that you also have a real need to feel like you're included in the band not just because we don't want to hurt your feelings, and at most recording sessions, two people is all it takes. I don't think I actually did anything at the last one. I am cool with that, but most people don't seem to be able to. So, by being worried about whether recording would actually be a good thing for you, I ensured that it would be a bad thing. Oops.
Beyond that, I didn't really know how things stood between you, Penny, and Chris, and thought that might make things more awkward. Neither of them seemed at all interested in having you play.
Everything I've said was not a reason for excluding you, but it was why I was slow and wishy-washy about it.
I really, honestly was hoping to see you at the dinner party this weekend, and talk about it then. I guess if you are breaking up with all your old Norman friends, then that's out. You are still welcome, but it is completely understandable if you don't come.
no subject
on 23 Jan 2003 01:00 (UTC)Is it fashioned to show your bitterness and to make an explicit parting shot? As in, you people suck because you weren't there for me. Or is it something else? Is it something where you don't feel like you can move on until you make an explicit gesture?
Don't take this in a wrong way, I'm not accusing but I'm curious about your motives.
For instance, your removal of most to all of the local people from your friends list surprised me. And I think it may open up questions about what my friends list means to me. I list people as my friends because I find them interesting, sometimes they find neat things or share my interests, and it's a convenient way to keep up and find out what other people are thinking/doing with their lives, some which I know, many which I don't.
The only time I've removed people in the past has been by mutual cleaning, or because they posted more times than I could handle. And now I'm interested in the reason I guess. Not because I feel slighted, because I just don't, but because I find it interesting. Did you decide you didn't need the reminder that these people exist, or because our lives are boring and you've been waiting for a time, or is it something else. Maybe you use your friends list in a completely different way than I do and that led to it.
Just curious, and I'm fine with 'fuck off',
Later, have fun,
-Lyle
no subject
since everyone seems to be clearing the air i did want to say that i'm sorry i didn't see you over christmas. i had planed to give you a call but once i got into town my mind went blank. there is probably a good 15-20 people i wanted to see but never found a way to.
i can't say that i blame you for your decision to split from your old group of friends. god knows i've often thought about telling everyone in norman to kiss my ass, and then move to new york and change my name. still i must admit that your tactic seems a bit harsh. i suppose everyone has different ways of dealing with things. had it been me i would have just attempted to fade into the wood work and go on living a nice peaceful life without those who cause me grief. if i was to read an emotion into your post it would have to be either anger or bitterness. in my experience anger leads to anger leads to bitterness leads to more anger and in the end you just die unhappy. but then again everyone deals with things differently...
no subject
on 23 Jan 2003 14:39 (UTC)no subject
on 25 Jan 2003 16:08 (UTC)