one less god than a Christian

[juldea]

Just had to share this one: "It has been pointed out that most believers are atheistic with respect to rival pantheons, and that an atheist merely believes in one less god than a Christian."

From one of the comments to this rather good read: An Athiest Manifesto

Comments

[tpau]

ya know, ia mall down with atheism, i think it is a fairly valid approach to life, and i spent the majority of my time beign one, but that site is a bit too... vitriolic? rabid? inflamatory? ridiculous? something anyway even for me... shrug

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I'd go with vitriolic for that particular article, yes (I'm unfamiliar with the site as a whole.) I don't think I agree with you for "ridiculous" though. It's not like his points are all invalid. He's just... fed up with having to make them. ;)

[tpau]

his points are valid in their meaning, but get invalidated in the way he presents them. it is all too inflamatory i suppose. i gave up on page 2, i couldn't read anymore

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I find that interesting, when you're looking for people to talk to about religion but you can't handle someone speaking passionately about their ideas...

[tpau]

yes... i jsut can't take hims seriously though. but on the othe hand i prefer this sort of interaction in person. i don't know it jsut strikes me that he is writign to get peopel angry at him, not jsut to make them understandhim...

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I don't at all get the impression that he is attempting to "get people angry at him." I think that HE is angry. Quite different.

[tpau]

oh i get htat he is angry... but his writing reads... liekhe wants to provoke a fight

[juldea.livejournal.com]

He's trying to provoke people to THINK...

[tpau]

except i doubt he will. generally epopel don't liekbiegn called stupid,a nd that is what he does... he does nto phrase his points in a way that would make peopelthink, or understand, or even try do either. he phrases his points in a way that tends to jsut make peopel too pissed off at him to think at all.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree with you that his words have the effect of pissing people off. I just disagree that he's TRYING to do that.

[siderea]

Really? I thought it was wonderful and very moving. He says very plainly some things that You're Not Supposed To Say because of, bluntly, Christian privilege in this country, so they're pretty shocking to hear (e.g. "They died talking to their imaginary friend." and his contention that at least the fundamentalists show an intellectual honesty the religious moderates don't.) So it's "rude" in the sense you're never supposed to say those thing. But those things are how people like me see the world. It's OK -- more than OK -- for Christians to talk about Jesus, being saved, sin, etc. in public, but for atheists to even say these things out loud is forbidden. It is a very unjust double standard.

Okay silly question...

[skybabie.livejournal.com]

If a person considers themselves atheist - what is the belief of death then, when you die your just worm food?

Re: Okay silly question...

[oakleaf-mirror.livejournal.com]

Is that so terrible?

I'm not an atheist (though people who believe in biblical god might be hard pressed to see the distinction), but I don't believe in an afterlife of individual consciousness. We live on in the memories of those we touched, and the legacy of our deeds.

Re: Okay silly question...

[juldea.livejournal.com]

As "atheist" is not an organized belief system like a religion, I can't say that absolutely everyone who is atheist believes the same thing about what happens when you die. But as general, yes, when you die your consciousness ceases and your body is left, well, dead. Worm food, as you said :)

Re: Okay silly question...

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Pst, that's why life is so special and important. This is the time we have; make the most of it.

Re: Okay silly question...

[skybabie.livejournal.com]

K TY, just wasn't sure on the whole line of thinking as to "what if" in the end (if that makes any sense) and I figured instead of just making up a belief on it I'd just ask. :)

Re: Okay silly question...

[siderea]

Oh, no, there are beetles and fungi and other stuff, too. Isn't the circle of life wonderful?

[learnedax.livejournal.com]

The quip is cute, but specious. The difference between 1 and 0 is 100%.

The manifesto... basically his main argument is a sloppy version of the Epicurean Paradox, and he spends a lot of time ignorantly arguing against strawmen. I don't believe in a god, but I don't want to be associated with that guy.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

For purposes of mentioning it here, I didn't care that it was specious. It was still cute. ;)

[zenandtheart.livejournal.com]

I had to copy the link, I know quite a few people who would find that bit of writing stimulating. The parts I've read so far were interesting and thought provoking.

[sandrylene.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I might be missing something, but I didn't find the article overly angry.

I did, however, find it to be largely as free of convincing evidence as religions themselves. If I were truly intellectually honest and open to new ideas, this would not convert me.

Also, many of the comments were just condescending and useless. They don't feel you *need* evidence for a lack of god basically because if you *do* believe in god then they feel you're already too stupid to be "saved." (Sorry, had to bite on the irony.)

Atheism will not end wars and cause world peace. World peace is fundamentally unattainable.

How much time have we all spent around humans without picking up how irrational they are? Yes, it'd be nice to not have fanatics and jihads, and anyone who knows me can speak for how virulently I despise self-righteousness, proselytising and other things frequently associated with religions (especially the Christian religion, which in its latest incarnations in this country has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ, aggravatingly enough). That said, atheists do not have a corner on the morality market by any means. Seriously, though, people are all too willing to convert to any means of not having to think for themselves, and governments, in the absence of religion, will use patriotism as that tool.

Hoping that taking away a little fantasy from peoples' lives will lead to an increase in pacifism, intelligence and morality and a decrease in greed, hatred and intolerance for difference is incredibly skewed and naive.

*shrug* At least it made me think, I guess. But I don't think any of the virulently religious folks would do even *that* much.

[etherfinker.livejournal.com]

Well, wouldn't'cha know it, I didn't actually go read the stuff you referred to, but when a subsequent comment referred to the Epicurean paradox, I sheepishly had to go look it up (the trouble of resolving an omnipotent creator with the presence of evil in the universe) - and upon reading this article after a Google search, I realized again, just how freaking cool is Wikipedia. This after finding lots of useful stuff there relating to obscure topics in abstract mathematics and early aviation that you couldn't hope to find in any single compendium in print.

By the way...

Even if religious belief isn't a root cause of mass participation in inhumane behaviors including war, it certainly has encouraged them with regularity... Excising irrational supernatural beliefs from society probably wouldn't fix everything - not that it's practical or even theoretically possible - but it would be a good start. Regardless of its net influence on mankind, religion fails on its own (lack of) merit - as a source of ethics, a system of enforcement of such mores, and a means of understanding the universe. The good things about organized religion are qualities which exist outside of it as well as in - a sense of community or extended family, a social support structure, or a source of personal, "spiritual" guidance, if you will - and in a religious framework, those qualities always come with a helluva string attached.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, for the most part - if you'll pardon the expression... I just can't help myself sometimes when it comes to this topic.

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Dude, Wikipedia is awesome. I have a feeling I will soon have instinctual searchings of Wikipedia similar to going to maps.google.com for directions :)

*looks down at her choir robe* Yep, pretty much. :)