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juldeaStandard fine text applies: this is someone else's words, not mine; I agree with much of what they are saying, but not all, and not every nuance of how they say it; this is directed at/covers certain people who make certain claims, and not the entirety of a religious group; I'm probably preaching to the crowd; etc etc.
Christians have convinced our country to allow one of their primary holy days to be a legally recognized paid holiday, something no other religion has ever accomplished. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Christians can use their religion to practically guarantee an election. People of any other religion, were they to use their religious adherence as part of their political campaign, would have a nigh impossible task be elected. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Most government bodies, when they convene, if they open with a prayer, benediction, or blessing of some sort, invariably open with Christian prayers. Those few that don’t open with Christian prayers open with “non-denominational” prayers that are still very Christian in feel. Once in a great while, they open with a benediction from some other religion - but that person rarely receives the respect expected during a Christian prayer. When a Buddhist gave the opening benediction for a Senate session in the US government, he received catcalls from a couple of senators and had others carry on private conversations - something that would never happen to a Christian officiant. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Our Pledge of Allegiance (that patriotic little ditty penned as part of an advertising campaign) was altered by Federal Government intervention to include the words “under God” - paying homage to just one of the many religions existing in America at that time. That’s privilege, not persecution.
There are more churches per capita than there are places of worship for all the other religions combined in the US. If we adjust for proportions of adherents, there are still more Christian churches (ie if 7% of the population is Buddhist, then 7% of the churches/temples/mosques/synagogues/etc should be Buddist temples, not 2%), mostly because when other religions seek permits, they must prove they are a legitimate religion, but if they’re a Christian denomination they are automatically granted the permit. That’s privilege, not persecution.
When a Christian’s religion becomes known at work, they don’t have to worry about being harassed by co-workers or even fired. That’s privilege, not persecution.
When Christians want to start a new church or new organization, they know filing for tax exempt status is pretty much a given, that they won’t have to prove their religion is a real one, and that tax exempt status may still be denied even if they meet all the IRS criteria just because their religion isn't known. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If a Christian wants to hold a retreat at a camp ground, or a picnic in a park, they know they will get the permits without any problems and they won’t have picketers trying to force them to change venues or not have it at all or disrupt their event. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Christians know they can publicize their religion in their business and attract customers, not rocks through the windows. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If Christians want a chaplain in the military, no bars are placed in their way, yet soldiers of minority religions go without military chaplains – even when the religion is recognized in the Military Chaplain’s Handbook (I have a copy). The military chaplains all come from the mainstream religions, and predominantly from Christian religions. Not one minority religion chaplain has been able to leap all the hurdles placed in their path to date. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If Christians want to be married by officiants in their religion, they have thousands of choices all across the country, yet adherents of many minority religions don’t have licensed officiants to perform marriages because many states and county clerks make it not just difficult but virtually impossible for them to be licensed. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Other religions don’t necessarily want the same privileges that Christianity enjoys in America; what they want is to be allowed to exist without harassment, without fear, without being accused of being “in a phase” or belonging to a “fake” religion, or having reporters say they "claim" to be an adherent of their religion, or having their religion dragged into a news report just because they aren't Christian.
Asking for the right to exist peacefully and to be allowed to live their beliefs without deliberate hardships and barriers placed in their way isn’t persecuting Christianity.
And it’s not persecution for someone to wish another “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”.
All from here.
Christians have convinced our country to allow one of their primary holy days to be a legally recognized paid holiday, something no other religion has ever accomplished. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Christians can use their religion to practically guarantee an election. People of any other religion, were they to use their religious adherence as part of their political campaign, would have a nigh impossible task be elected. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Most government bodies, when they convene, if they open with a prayer, benediction, or blessing of some sort, invariably open with Christian prayers. Those few that don’t open with Christian prayers open with “non-denominational” prayers that are still very Christian in feel. Once in a great while, they open with a benediction from some other religion - but that person rarely receives the respect expected during a Christian prayer. When a Buddhist gave the opening benediction for a Senate session in the US government, he received catcalls from a couple of senators and had others carry on private conversations - something that would never happen to a Christian officiant. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Our Pledge of Allegiance (that patriotic little ditty penned as part of an advertising campaign) was altered by Federal Government intervention to include the words “under God” - paying homage to just one of the many religions existing in America at that time. That’s privilege, not persecution.
There are more churches per capita than there are places of worship for all the other religions combined in the US. If we adjust for proportions of adherents, there are still more Christian churches (ie if 7% of the population is Buddhist, then 7% of the churches/temples/mosques/synagogues/etc should be Buddist temples, not 2%), mostly because when other religions seek permits, they must prove they are a legitimate religion, but if they’re a Christian denomination they are automatically granted the permit. That’s privilege, not persecution.
When a Christian’s religion becomes known at work, they don’t have to worry about being harassed by co-workers or even fired. That’s privilege, not persecution.
When Christians want to start a new church or new organization, they know filing for tax exempt status is pretty much a given, that they won’t have to prove their religion is a real one, and that tax exempt status may still be denied even if they meet all the IRS criteria just because their religion isn't known. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If a Christian wants to hold a retreat at a camp ground, or a picnic in a park, they know they will get the permits without any problems and they won’t have picketers trying to force them to change venues or not have it at all or disrupt their event. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Christians know they can publicize their religion in their business and attract customers, not rocks through the windows. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If Christians want a chaplain in the military, no bars are placed in their way, yet soldiers of minority religions go without military chaplains – even when the religion is recognized in the Military Chaplain’s Handbook (I have a copy). The military chaplains all come from the mainstream religions, and predominantly from Christian religions. Not one minority religion chaplain has been able to leap all the hurdles placed in their path to date. That’s privilege, not persecution.
If Christians want to be married by officiants in their religion, they have thousands of choices all across the country, yet adherents of many minority religions don’t have licensed officiants to perform marriages because many states and county clerks make it not just difficult but virtually impossible for them to be licensed. That’s privilege, not persecution.
Other religions don’t necessarily want the same privileges that Christianity enjoys in America; what they want is to be allowed to exist without harassment, without fear, without being accused of being “in a phase” or belonging to a “fake” religion, or having reporters say they "claim" to be an adherent of their religion, or having their religion dragged into a news report just because they aren't Christian.
Asking for the right to exist peacefully and to be allowed to live their beliefs without deliberate hardships and barriers placed in their way isn’t persecuting Christianity.
And it’s not persecution for someone to wish another “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”.
All from here.
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no subject
on 17 Sep 2010 17:22 (UTC)The OP is just plain wrong here with their supporting arguments. There are more churches per capita because Christianity has been the prevailing religion in the US for the last 200 years. The OP suggests that this is the case because "mostly because when other religions seek permits, they must prove they are a legitimate religion, but if they're a Christian denomination they are automatically granted the permit" which is only a valid point when you're talking about the church of self. Not only that, but UU (and some similar organizations) churches are called churches. They'd fall into the OP's mischaracterization of Christianity in this point, but if you've ever been to one, even as an atheist or whatever, you'd know they aren't Christian organizations.
Assertion 5. "Christians can be Christians at work"
Again, this is this concept of mainstream Christianity. I can give you personal examples of being mocked at work at my current job because I won't do things with the people at work - strip clubs, excessive drinking, and continuous gossip would top the list. I can give you personal examples of a friend of mine who was nearly fired because during "sharing time" (which was instituted by the company to produce diversity in the workplace) he preached the Gospel during his turn. Not only was he nearly fired, but he has gained the disdain of many coworkers.
Assertion 6. "Christians get Permits"
Once again, it seems the OP is using this "Privilege, not persecution" mantra to complain about the fact that *their* religion isn't "governmentally recognized". Let's see. Judaism. Islam. Buddhism. Taoism. Hinduis. Shinto. All of these organizations can obtain the same status legally as the Christian church without having to prove anything about the validity of their faith.
Assertion 7. "Christians can camp"
Anyone can reserve a public camp ground for any reason. The permit process isn't tied to a religion. I'm not even sure where they're going here.
Assertion 8. "Religious business"
I refer to my previous point made by someone else. Lack of persecution != privilege.
Assertion 9. "Christians get chaplains"
Now the OP is just talking out his rear. They don't know what they're talking about. I have a friend who is a chaplain in the military. He is mandated to learn about the other religions and required by his atheistic superior to be a supportive "religious person" who can not enforce their own faith unless it is the same faith as the soldier going to him. He isn't expected to know everything about every religion, but he is to be tolerant and equally supportive, at least at face value, of every belief system.
Assertion 10. "Christians can get married by whoever"
? Maybe it's just a Massachusetts thing that a friend of ours got a 1 day license to marry two other friends of ours? I don't think his religion (he's an atheist I think) had anything to do with it.
The OP made additions to the entry you are referring to after your post.
Assertion 11. "Christians got businesses closed on their special day"
Yeah. So do the Jews. How is this a Christian thing?
Assertion 12. "Non-Christian kids need to know about Christianity. If you don't raise your kid as a Christian it's child abuse"
This person must live in the Bible Belt or something. It's easier to refute a point if you have a clue where it came from. This isn't even remotely true anywhere I went to school. In fact, a woman just got arrested for child abuse in Britain for preaching the gospel to her daughter. I preach the gospel to my daughter. Am I next? I spank her too. Where are the shackles?
Assertion 13. Full quote on this one - "When Christians have children and raise them Christian, they encourage their children to share their activities with their friends, family, neighbors. Parents of minority religions school their children in silence so the children won't be taunted and harassed and teased and beaten by not only Christian children but by Christian adults, and pushed to the point of suicide."